10/28/2008 09:13:00

I've been reading alot of computer game creation articles, and one distinct theme that runs through it, is 'RISK vs REWARD'

 Most Gamers, be they computer, board, RPG or even card games, have the primary way to run the game, and the deeper level.. even poker.. with poker faces and tells' as the deeper levels, some people look at 'having fun' vs 'really playing' to all games.

 So, the 'having fun' part, is when the player follows the mathmatical rules,gets to understand them, and then socially interacts with people at the table, while playing the game more on a sub-concious level (because the rules have become second nature) when it takes too much time to learn 'how' this is no longer a fun game for the average consumer.

While the 'deeper play' is, for the most part' when the players start learning the aspects of play that allow the player to win, by breaking the rules, or seeing beyond the vale.. In roleplay.. we term this either 'Roleplaying your character' OR Meta-gaming.. depending on HOW we do this..

This is partly the fault of the system, and partly the fault of the players and their expectations, and partly the fault of the GM.

The System If the system itself only rewards players for killing monsters and completing the quest, then its pretty darn obvious, what the players are going to do. If the system has a clean cut, 'you killed a 7th level monster you get 700 experience, system' then the GM will pretty much have a clean cut way to run the game..

But what about 'tricking' the monster?, vanquishing the enemy? figuring out the puzzle? not solving the quest? and General everyday ROLEPLAY???

Most systems have far less 'rulings' about these ways to achieve goals, no reward, why risk it? just kill the critter.

The Players If a Player knowns about, and expects, experience for kills.. they will do it.. and only it.. who cares if my hair is red or I'm a brooding mage, and my brother didn;t love me enough, does it give me a combat bonus? more DPS? no? who cares? I want a +7 vorpal sword..

The players expectations of what makes an RPG is as important for their playing experience as anything else.

The GamesmasterIts the GM's job to get the players to experience all varieties of play, but if you've never played before? if you've only been a player in a munchkin hack and slash.. how can you know any different..

 So.. for the players and the Gamesmasters, they do, as a tendancy, rely on the rules to tell them what to do... so.. in essence, its back to the system as the major flaw

possible solutions

Personally, I give out 8 sets of experience, I TELL the players about all 6, in every single session, it takes 5 minutes at the end of the session.. I ignore the system rules for this if its a existing system, but my own personal system is designed for this..

So for my players: Being there, Skill or Attribute usage, be it combat, traps, diplomacy :i.e. Conversation (level 3 character talks a bartender (level 5) into giving him some information = like fighting a level 5 monster)  Story Completion (when a story comes to a conclusive end) Humour (by making light in certain situations, giving the group a good laugh) Participation (contributions of particular points, which helps the game progress, AND not wasting time) and ROLEPLAY (getting into character, talking in a funny voice, remembering key points about background, family, of both SELF, Other CHARACTERS and NPC's)

 

Now that players know there are 8 ways to earn XP, they dont feel so limited to getting that +7 vorpal sword

 (Lastly, but this relates less to most systems: Your first fight, vs your first picklock, if your a fighter.. vs if your a theif.. surely the XP gained should be scaled accordingly..? )

09/30/2008 12:30:20

Funny you mention Clue. I kept feeling about every other non-combat session for my T&T or Spacers games essentially boiling down to elaborate Clue games. I personally like to mix up three styles of games myself; indulgent combat, a variation of It Takes a Thief, or the Clue session.

09/30/2008 07:09:15

Tim_Jensen: I'll have to look at those.  The unfortunate truth is that it is easier to find players/groups for the mainstream games than some of the less well known games.  I've been lucky just to find D&D groups. 

09/29/2008 21:27:31

It is interesting to see this same notion come up every few years; usually coinciding with the latest version of D&D.

Roleplaying game design stagnates now and then, but generally it keeps improving.  In recent years games have been getting better at focusing on what they do best.  Sometimes an endless line of supplements can dilute a game's focus, but D&D 4 is still too new for that to have happened yet.

If you want a roleplaying game that facillitates the creation of a story, there are lots of them around now if you look.  Have you played Burning Wheel?  Dogs in the Vineyard? Spirit of the Century?  Primetime Adventures?  You might be surprised just how story-intensive today's crop of roleplaying games can be.

09/29/2008 13:59:14

TheNewReaper: I agree with you that ultimately it is the GM and the Players that decide how a game runs but the system itself can help nudge a group in one direction or the other.  I think a system that forgoes the use of minis and battlemats, offers more non-combat options to the PCs and better rewards for good roleplaying nudge it into "Roleplaying".  A system that has a detailed combat system, assumes the use of miniatures, and rewards the players more for combat than interaction with NPCs nudges the group towards "Tactical Wargames".  Obviously a roleplaying game can be created from a tactical wargame... the original Dungeons & Dragons is the prime example of it.

09/29/2008 13:34:39

I agree on the combat based games. When I ran my upcoming Chronicle game back when I first concieved it, we played it more like a 'who dunnit.' Players spend more time spying on other players that actually shooting anything. I think we had one combat session in the 4 day game.

09/29/2008 13:26:04

I think you need to blame the games less and the players more. The fact is every Gm and every group is different if you want a more story based game then find those players its simple. I understand where you are coming from but the option to role play is still a part of all the new games not the makers fault that people blow that option off.

09/29/2008 10:57:56

Oh, I completely agree. I'm very very big on the storytelling aspect of the game, and when people forget that to roll the dice and move around the map, it can cheese me off.

I find that Roleplaying isn't limited to out-of-combat. Even in combat, it's possible to roleplay. Who does your character help? Who does your character ignore? What crazy moves does your character pull? Who's got your character's back in return?

In my current party, there are certain members that my character will totally blow off and certain characters my character will back up.  YOU are not entering an encounter. Your character is, and he/she has no concept of a 'map' or 'stats' or 'levels!'

What do you do?

09/29/2008 10:15:06

This is a fair assesment of the group I'm beginning, but that is just
the thing...I myself delved back into D&D just two years ago, now
I'm bringing in a group of people more caught up in the video gaming
realm...bringing them to a role playing realm. Part of our problem is
we have a few characters that make it unpleasant for the group...ie I'm
going to kill everything in front of me...or the just go out of there
way to be the most vulgar loathsome person they can be, "because hey
it's a game."



It takes a talented GM to reel in these strong personalities, and
perhaps an engaging story. It seems that for 4th ed, yes it is combat
focused, but it becomes the task of the players to become the roles.
I'm starting a 4e campaign and hoping I can curb some of their obsurd
notions and reward them for originality, and were making progress...



just yesterday our small group was involved in a battle with a Drider
that was on the way to murdering us, but my character, the only one
that hit him came in close and actually negotiated his way out of a
bloodbath. Since the drider was after one of our members I offered a
trade of something magical and call it even. My little brother said,
great no experience...our DM, the talented Dari informed him we got exp
for overcoming the encounter.



Light dawns on marveled head!



In the end, I think we need to be more patient with the new crop of
gamers and soon enough you can probably train a good group of rpers.