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22
Apr/2008

"Hello! You Suck! You're Out of the Campaign! Byeee!"

Be a Dungeon Master long enough, and no matter how stable your roster of gamers is, you'll eventually have to deal with new people entering your group, whether it's by them asking if they can join, an established group member asking if their friend can join, or you yourself asking someone to fill a vacancy.

Maybe it's a co-worker, or someone you attend school or church with. Maybe it's someone you met at a gaming con, or on an online gaming forum. But somehow, somewhere, you'll be faced with the prospect of bringing in a stranger into your group.

This can be a scary and daunting prospect, because, until you actually witness them playing your game, you aren't 100% positive that they'll be a good fit. Even gaming with them for a few rounds at a con isn't always a good indicator, because there's a big difference between tolerating someone's weirdness/idiosyncracies once or twice a year, and tolerating it every week (or every other week, or every month, or whatever your group's meeting frequency is). Sometimes those things that set you off aren't even noticeable when you only game with someone a few times a year.

A lot of time, it works out. Unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't. What do you do then? Problem is, there is no easy solution, no easy way to tell someone to go away. How do you tell someone that their gaming style doesn't mesh with the group's? Or that perhaps their personality is far too abrasive? Or that they're too aggressive, or are way too loud? Or that they need to use soap? Yeah, that'll work....risk hurting someone's real-life feelings over a made-up game.

People are funny creatures. They can seem normal when you first meet them, then, when you get to know them, you're almost ready to run away screaming, having failed your SAN check over and over. It's almost like dating. Yeah, you meet someone who on first impression seems kinda nice, then after a few dates you realize that you're hanging out with a Schizophrenic Militant Vegan/Moonie who's also a card-carrying member of a Kali Death Cult and part-time carrion eater. I mean, who knew?

As you can probably tell, I've had some experience in this area. Over the last few decades, I've dealt with:

- Guys who'd take off their footgear and put sweaty feet on our coffee table
- Guys who'd dump snack food on our rug and eat off it.
- Someone who, in the first half hour of entering our apartment, insulted my faith and flirted with my daughter
- Newcomers who were already gamers, and who'd interrupt the game flow by talking about other systems and how cool those systems were.
- Someone leaving permanent armpit stains on the cushions of our cream-colored furniture
- Female gamers who don't wear underwear...but DO wear a skirt.

I met this guy at work, years ago, a fellow Computer Operator on the late shift. His name was John (good start there), and it turned out he was a gamer. I invited him to our apartment for some AD&D.

He shows up IN COSTUME, with an actual longbow in hand. He insisted on playing a recurring character of his, a dwarf named Robert, who seemed to be a cross between a skinhead and one of those creepy guys who lives alone in the woods and fires his guns at people from the "gub'mint".

Then, at some point, he began speaking in a high-pitched voice that he said was his "Leprechaun voice".

Whooooaaaaaaakaaayyyy.....

He didn't last long.

Nor did the ex-junkie who talked non-stop during game sessions, particularly obssessing about the Warhammer RPG, with the main selling point (in her opinion) being that you could play a rat-catcher.

For the record, I didn't bring her in...that was a FOAF (Friend of a friend).

They say that doctors make the worst patients, lawyers make the worst clients, cooks make the worst restaurant customers, and, may I add, DMs make the worst players. OK, that's a sweeping generalization, and I can think of a number of exceptions to that rule right off the bat, but in general, every DM has "their" way of doing things, and many can't help but to butt in on the actual DM's scene for whatever reason.

Personally, that's one of the big reasons I prefer DMing, not playing. Because I can't trust myself to keep my big mouth shut when I see a glaring plot hole, a ludicrous plot device, or a blatantly awful rules interpretation.

Now, where was I? Oh yes....new players who suck, and how to get rid of them. Well, like I said before, there's no easy answer. Despite their oddities, we're talking about human beings here, and they have feelings, even the ones who insist that they're actually part cyborg and can claim to have a ferret somewhere in their family tree.

And when you have a new player in your group, they've already sort of staked a claim to being there, haven't they? I mean, once you bring someone in, it becomes awfully difficult to un-invite them. Again with the dating metaphor, it's like, well, breaking up with someone. But in this case, instead of being able to say "It's not you, it's me", you're saying "No, it really really IS you. You're awful."

Oh sure, you can grin and bear it...Lord knows that's what I usually do, since, for all my blood thunder and bluster, I'm really a softie who doesn't like to disappoint people. But what happens when your other gamers, you know, the established ones, the ones who've faithfully supported your campaign for years, say "Wow, this person sucks. You really need to get rid of them."?

It's not too bad if the new person was brought in by an established member of your group. You can pass the buck to them, and have them pull the trigger. But when it's YOU who did the recruiting, man, you are hosed. Pleas to other gamers for tolerance work sometimes, but not all the time. Even some who decide to tolerate the crazed, obnoxious newcomer may eventually have enough and quietly slip away from the group, opting for a quieter way to spend a Saturday. The more outspoken ones might come right out and say "I won't be there if so-and-so is there!"

Although you can plead for tolerance from your veteran gamers, there is one very good point that I've heard made. People game to relax, to forget the stresses of everyday life, and to get together with friends and fellow gaming enthusiasts for a fun, friendly time, not to get stressed out and have their teeth on edge because there's some smelly wackjob who's hogging all the snacks and who only takes enough time out of his constant tirades about how much he hates TSR, to backstab someone's character and take their stuff. That's when you concede that your established gamers just may have a point!

Have I ever flat-out told someone they weren't welcome? Yes. Yes I have. Fortunately, I'm from the school of "You can tell someone just about anything as long as you phrase it correctly". In such cases, what I do is to emphasize that the complaints are not about the player as a human being, but that their playing style simply doesn't mesh with the tone of the group. It's still awkward, and it's not always well received, but it's better than nothing, and a lot of times it does in fact work.

Have I ever booted someone out of the game outright? You bet. Complete with declarations such as "You're banned", "You're not welcome," and the ever popular "And don't come back!". But in those rare cases, the level of assclownishness is so high, so toxic, that it more often than not has actually gone beyond the game and is an actual "real-life" problem.

So. What have we learned today?
1. Be careful who you invite into your group
2. Don't spring weird people on your loyal gamers
3. Try your best to get a good grip on the mannerisms and playing styles of a potential invite
4. If you're sending someone away, do your best to not make it a judgement of the person as a whole, but rather simply their approach to a particular social activity (e.g. gaming).

NEXT TIME: How to get out those stubborn potato chip grease and armpit sweat stains from your furniture.

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Viewing 1 - 8 out of 8 Comments

08/29/2008 22:29:40

I find GMs make the most demanding players, which can be a problem if you aren't up to their particular style, desired level of knowing a rules detail/setting detail, or are not flexible enough. I know I'm bad about wanting deep settings, and GMs who can make and keep to decisions, rather than ones that go 'By The Book' even when the book is logically or reasonably wrong in how it presents something or lacks something that you wnat the GM  to decide on. Fledgling GMs often have this problem... you hit them with a question they can't answer by a straight 'look it up' because they are using someone else's rules and someone else's setting and someone else's scenario that was never intended for the specific characters and playing style of the players.

 Like the GM in an old AD&D game I played in years ago who couldn't deal with our solution to invisible opponents... mainly the use of flour to track them and to expose their presence in a room.... or the GM who didn't like the simple solution to the 'Bandits in an old abandoned Inn' whom we dealt with by setting the Inn on fiire rather than going in and fighting them as the scenario was written to follow. Or the GM who had to deal with my elegant solution to trap doors in floors in a tomb once we found one.... rolling a bowling ball ahead of the party to trigger the floor traps.... or using Sheep or goats to get through the magc equivilent of a minefield...

 

 



04/23/2008 10:28:19

Ben_McFarland wrote:
Why not invite them on a conditional basis-- say to them, "Hey, we've got an NPC who's joining the party for a short arc, do you want to play them? Oh, it's open-- you can design them how you like, make them level X."

Then, if all goes well, the "NPC" sticks around, and if not then you've got an out, "Hey thanks! I appreciate you taking care that character. If we get an opening at the table, I'll let you know!"

By setting the expectation early on that it's just for a couple of sessions you give yourself an easily and pain-free out. No feelings hurt, no crazytown time, and the NPC aspect allows you to have a certain amount of hand-waving on the introduction and departure of the character.

Just some thoughts,

-Ben.


Yeah there may actually be that possibility in the future. There's a guy at work who's been practically following me around to join my campaign, and he himself has brought up the NPC idea.

I guess the main point of the blog entry was throwing a spotlight on those situations where it LOOKS like the person's going to work out, even after a few gaming sessions, but then inevitably you realize that their, shall we say, "real" natures come through, and dang, whaddya do then? "Hi there, we've come to realize that you rot. So, don't come back now, hear?"  But I agree with the responses posted thus far, that screening is still the best way to go about it. Better to tell someone at the outset that they're not making it, rather than having them entrenched for a while, get comfy, then having to kick them out.


04/23/2008 09:38:58
Why not invite them on a conditional basis-- say to them, "Hey, we've got an NPC who's joining the party for a short arc, do you want to play them? Oh, it's open-- you can design them how you like, make them level X."

Then, if all goes well, the "NPC" sticks around, and if not then you've got an out, "Hey thanks! I appreciate you taking care that character. If we get an opening at the table, I'll let you know!"

By setting the expectation early on that it's just for a couple of sessions you give yourself an easily and pain-free out. No feelings hurt, no crazytown time, and the NPC aspect allows you to have a certain amount of hand-waving on the introduction and departure of the character.

Just some thoughts,

-Ben.


04/22/2008 17:43:57
Hi StupidSmurf,

Ah...

The diplomatic handling of the difficult player is something all of us have dealt with now and again.
I can completely relate to that.

I too, these days, usually emphasize that it starts out on a trial basis.  It is pretty important to check folks out before having them play in a campaign as in our group campaigns are played for a number of years.  I try to have the player come over for a one shot scenario first and see how it goes before even extending the trial invitation.

May your games go smoothly!

- Andre


04/22/2008 15:48:04

Cosmic_Emu wrote:
I really would agree that the best thing is to try and prevent this situation from ever occuring. I screen potential players in a series of steps.

1) The game drop. Mention that you play games to those you feel might be open or what games you play to those that already play.

2) Swap war stories. This is most important. If you are talking to a newbie, you can usually read, by their reactions, if your style of play is for them. If you are talking to a gamer, then their own tales will give you all the flags you need.

3) Ask questions. Why does this seem so hard? It really can cut a lot of problems out.

4) Mention the possibility of gaming but don't commit.

5) Invite. After having a few chats with them and getting a feel for their style, invite them under the understanding that it really is a trial thing.

This seems to work well for me.

-Eli



Well, admittedly, I am focusing on the cases that go wrong. Over the years, I've followed various of the steps you've mentioned, and have recieved mixed results. In fact, in ONE case, the swapping of war stories step eventually led to two new people entering my campaign; one of them is really cool and is a permanent fixture, the other one wound up as one of the listed nightmares in my original blog.  The latter eventually left when his character got totally humiliated, and he took it hard (and it wasn't even anything deliberate on my part....his PC was the best target for the particular treatment) and never returned.


04/22/2008 15:40:37

Silverlion wrote:

Funny enough, I tend to stick with playing with friends. If they're friends first, they're normally decent about such things. But man, what? Flirt with your daughter? Unless she's 18 (and the gamer similarly aged) that's JUST NOT RIGHT. Insulting faith, is right up there as well. Might I ask what faith that is?


 



I'm Christian, he's not. I tend to keep religion out of conversations unless it's a serious discussion where all the parties are actually interested in discussing it intelligently or something along those lines.

IIRC, my daughter was a high school senior. Not quite 18 at the time, and he was in his, I'd say, early 20's...not outrageous age-wise in general, but the behavior was way inappropriate, especially for a first-time visit to our place. Two of my gamers, who are like uncles to her, quietly approached me and asked if I wanted them to work him over.


04/22/2008 15:34:11

Funny enough, I tend to stick with playing with friends. If they're friends first, they're normally decent about such things. But man, what? Flirt with your daughter? Unless she's 18 (and the gamer similarly aged) that's JUST NOT RIGHT. Insulting faith, is right up there as well. Might I ask what faith that is?

 

 

 



04/22/2008 15:15:48
I really would agree that the best thing is to try and prevent this situation from ever occuring. I screen potential players in a series of steps.

1) The game drop. Mention that you play games to those you feel might be open or what games you play to those that already play.

2) Swap war stories. This is most important. If you are talking to a newbie, you can usually read, by their reactions, if your style of play is for them. If you are talking to a gamer, then their own tales will give you all the flags you need.

3) Ask questions. Why does this seem so hard? It really can cut a lot of problems out.

4) Mention the possibility of gaming but don't commit.

5) Invite. After having a few chats with them and getting a feel for their style, invite them under the understanding that it really is a trial thing.

This seems to work well for me.

-Eli



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